Basic Vacuum Forming and Vacuum Machine Building

[GoldCylon]

The rotocast machine looks great. What was the price it ran you to build. Yeah I know you used parts that were around from the ATM machines, but what is the ball park price in realistic cost. Looks like a fun toy, and man cheaper and lighter weight toys now.

[Big Al]

ABS FTW

I'm not sure what FTW is

Big Al

[Big Al]

ABS FTW

I Found it! LOL

Answer: In 2011, the most common meaning of "FTW" is "for the win", an internet expression of general enthusiasm.


Got it! I have used alot of ABS in my build and I agree ...Good stuff!

Big Al

[Huttman]

The rotocast machine looks great. What was the price it ran you to build. Yeah I know you used parts that were around from the ATM machines, but what is the ball park price in realistic cost. Looks like a fun toy, and man cheaper and lighter weight toys now.

its really hard to say. all the parts were free. the one thing i had to buy was one of the gears. I realized that one of my molds was not getting completely coated so i went with a smaller gear for the inside frame. I was very fortunate to have everything that was needed laying around. Im a firm believer in recycling so it worked out.

One thing that works is going on craigs list and look under the "free stuff" section. people are tossing away all kinds of stuff. Keep in mind this isnt what I did, but I have found things for my vac table that way like wood and items to make my oven like hardy board etc.

Be careful looking at free stuff, you can get distracted and you will learn if you have hoarding tendencies, lol! I did pretty ok

if i were to do it again, i would build it using all steel frame. the bottom that holds to two square frames is steele, but the actual frames are aluminum. its sturdy and holds the 25 pound molds, but i have sculpting helmets on the horizon, im hoping it holds well.

Its a learning experience for sure, it would be nice to have seperate speed controls but that is a whole different ballgame, and costly.

[Big Al]

Its a learning experience for sure, it would be nice to have seperate speed controls but that is a whole different ballgame, and costly

This one is a new one but you can buy them used as well. My dad gave me two of them years ago and one is from the f50's and the case is bakalite and still works great. the other one in from the 70's and is in the aqua green steel painted case and it still works fine!
If your machine is a simple wire and you only have one speed Just (on Off) you can regulate it with a Variac
This one is for 120 volt 3 amp and they make bigger ones depending on the amps of your motor.
I own a couple of old ones and you can buy them all day long on e-bay

http://shop.ebay.com/i.html?_from=R40&_ ... Categories

Old School Speed Control!

Hoped that helped

Let me know what ya think?

Big Al

[Huttman]

my motor is , well a motor, then i have belts running up to a transmission. the transmission has a lever that allows me to choose whatever speed i choose. when i mentioned variable speed, i meant a speed for the inside frame, and a speed controller for the outside. because molds vary in size which would require different speeds to coat the inside evenly.

[Big Al]

my motor is , well a motor, then i have belts running up to a transmission. the transmission has a lever that allows me to choose whatever speed i choose. when i mentioned variable speed, i meant a speed for the inside frame, and a speed controller for the outside. because molds vary in size which would require different speeds to coat the inside evenly.

Ok I get it now! I thought you were talking about the motor speed...

My Bad

Goin back to talkin about Plastics now.

Big Al

[Big Al]

Plastic Glues

I thought I would cover Glues real quick

Some times you need to join two parts and the best way to do that is with the right glue or cement.
I use different glues on different plastics and this just comes from trial and error so the first glue I reach for is Plasti Zap!

[attachment=5]Plasti Zap.jpg[/attachment]
Plasti Zap is a Cyanoacrylate or (CA) Glue which is basicaly liquid acylic. " Plasti Zap " is a brand that is specially formulated for plastic, all CA glues are not created equal! I have other CA glues for balsa wood, Carbon fiber, fiberglass...etc. and I will talk about that when we talk about Plugs. This particular glue works well for thinner parts. for thicker parts I use Plastic cement which is more of a plastic melting solvent designed to chemically fuse the plastic parts together.



Plastruct Cement
[attachment=4]plastruct cement.gif[/attachment]

[attachment=3]Plasti Cement 1.gif[/attachment]

[attachment=2]Plasti cement 2.gif[/attachment]


Here's one I haven't used yet but I have used many devcon epoxies on other materials and they are very good.

[attachment=0]Devcon Plastic Epoxy.jpg[/attachment]

Any of these work well. One of them is a Non Toxic cement but my experience with these has been they do not work as well as the good O'll regular Plastic cement.


You can get this glue and cement from Tower Hobbies or your local hobby shop

Here's Tower's Link

Tower Hobbies Glues



Just a qiuck added note on Cyanoacrylate, (CA) When cured, is Acrylic!....and is hard to sand!...You must maintain control over the application and be sure not to slop or over glue with the intention of correcting it in the sanding phase.

Acetone, (Finger Nail Polish Remover) melts CA and will also melt your parts!

You can clean up spilled CA with Acetone or Finger Nail Polish Remover, but DO NOT USE IT to clean your plastic parts!

ABS (Acrylonitrile Butadien Styrene)

[attachment=9]ABS.jpg[/attachment]

This is a Bio on the atribrutes of ABS I found on one of the plastic suppliers web site.

ABS is a common thermoplastic used to make light, rigid, component such as Sheets, in Automobile interiors, passenger bus interiors, refrigerator Vehicles, Ambulances, musical instruments, golf club heads (used for its good shock absorbance), automotive body parts, wheel covers, enclosures, protective head gear.

It is a copolymer made by polymerizing styrene and acrylonitrile in the presence of polybutadiene.The styrene gives the plastic a shiny, impervious surface. The butadiene, a rubbery substance, provides resilience even at low temperatures. ABS can be used between -25 and 60

[Neptune]

Informative thread. I built a very basic version and use a Rigid vacuum for my pulls. Crashman, that wrote the article for TK-560 did my pulls for my 1/350th TOS Enterprise back in 06.

[Big Al]

Informative thread. I built a very basic version and use a Rigid vacuum for my pulls. Crashman, that wrote the article for TK-560 did my pulls for my 1/350th TOS Enterprise back in 06.

I hope this info is helpful. I just try to speak from what I know and have done and also researched on the net.

Beleive it or not when I learned haow to do Vacuum Forming years ago, There wasn't that much info available on the subject and I had to scrape as much Info as I could get on the net as well as book stores and libraries. Now ther is a whole universe of info but none of it is all in one palce.

Very Cool on your Cylon Suit. I haven't built my Cylon Suit yet but it's in the future. The rigid works very good Mine is a Shop VAc brand buT they are both great!

Do you have any Pics of your suits and the assembly? I would love it if you shared them here.

Big Al

[Big Al]

PVC Type 2 (Poly Vinyl Chloride)

PVC has been around for years and particulary Type 2 is the same PVC they make white plumbing pipe and grey electrical pipe.

Personaly, I have never pulled any parts from this material because untill recent years it has been hard to find and even though you can get it now, I think all the plastic companies stock size starts at 1/4 inch thickness.

I could be wrong just had trouble finding it thinner. This material is mostly used to make commercial products.

[attachment=0]PVC Products.jpg[/attachment]

It's still a great plastic for building other projects but not really suitable for our applications here other than maybe useing it to make integrated rigid parts when constructing your plugs where as wood would also work just fine.

Next Up: Styrene (High Impact Type)

[Neptune]

Informative thread. I built a very basic version and use a Rigid vacuum for my pulls. Crashman, that wrote the article for TK-560 did my pulls for my 1/350th TOS Enterprise back in 06.

I hope this info is helpful. I just try to speak from what I know and have done and also researched on the net.

Beleive it or not when I learned haow to do Vacuum Forming years ago, There wasn't that much info available on the subject and I had to scrape as much Info as I could get on the net as well as book stores and libraries. Now ther is a whole universe of info but none of it is all in one palce.

Very Cool on your Cylon Suit. I haven't built my Cylon Suit yet but it's in the future. The rigid works very good Mine is a Shop VAc brand buT they are both great!

Do you have any Pics of your suits and the assembly? I would love it if you shared them here.

Big Al

You've done an awesome job of gathering information and working out the process. I haven't made any suits yet, but it is definately on my list. I have to finish the NBSG Cylong fors, the I'm definately building the TOS Helmet.

[Big Al]

Styrene (High Impact Type) or HIPS (High Impact Poly Styrene)

High Impact Styrene 3.jpg (50.77 KiB) Viewed 5108 times

High Impact Styrene 3.jpg (50.77 KiB) Viewed 5108 times

This is a Halo helmet made of HIPS (High Impact Poly Styrene)

[attachment=2]Halo Hips.jpg[/attachment]
High Impact Poly Styrene is very similar to ABS. and is very tough! and It is easy to form.


The following descriptions are a compilation taken from two suppliers web sites and I felt they were articulate enough for me to use here rather than paraphrasing.


Styrene High Impact

Because of its combination of versatility, easy processing, and good value, styrene is one of the largest thermoplastics. It is frequently substituted for paper, wood and metals as the cost of these materials escalate. High - Impact Styrene is obtained by blending standard styrene with impact - improving standard styrene with impact - improving additives. It is an opaque white and is most often used for application of a temporary or disposable nature.

Polystyrene is one of the most widely used kinds of plastic. Pure solid polystyrene is a colorless, hard plastic with limited flexibility. More than half of all polystyrene produced is blended with 5 to 10 percent polybutadiene to reduce brittleness and improve impact strength. This blend is marketed as high-impact polystyrene or HIPS for short.

Several other copolymers are also used with styrene. Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (or ABS plastic) is similar to HIPS: a copolymer of acrylonitrile and styrene, toughened with polybutadiene.


Properties:

Good thermal and dimensional stability
High degree of hardness
Low moisture absorption
Thermoformable
Die cuttable
Decoratable
Excellent combination of surface tension and grain
Highest achievable ink drying surface tension and grain
Superior air cushioning and static inhibiting surface

Most common use for High Impact Styrene is commercial products such as fast food containers.

[attachment=0]Hips products-drinkcups-800x300.jpg[/attachment]


Applications for HIPS:

Signs
Point-of-purchase displays
Meat, poultry, and egg containers
Furniture panels
Fast food take out containers
Architectural models
Engineering prototypes


Availabilities:

Standard Sheet Size: .10" Thick. - 26" X 70", 0.15" to.187" Thick - 48" X 96"
Standard Thicknesses: .030" to .250"

This is a very good plastic to use and is interchangeable with ABS.
Availability of HIPS is great and you should have no problem finding it at your local hobby store or ordering it on line as previously discussed.

Next Up: CAB (Cellulose Acetate Butyrate)

[Big Al]

CAB (Cellulose Acetate Butyrate)

This plastic was widely used before the advent of Pet-G and was the choice of most modelers to make clear plastic parts.

Also known as UVEX, This is a trade name for Eastman Corp. (Formaly Eastman Kodak)
It's most common use today is as a film coating in the manufacturing of safety glasses, Sun glasses, Helmet wind screens, cd, dvd's etc.

Uvex Helmet

[attachment=2]Uvex helmet.jpg[/attachment]

Uvex Goggles

[attachment=1]uvex-uvision-sunglasses-blacklaser.jpg[/attachment]

Uvex Sunglasses

[attachment=0]Uvex_Casual.jpg[/attachment]


CAB is the old school plastic that is used for making canopies and windows in R/C Models.
You guessed it! It's clear and is a very good plastic for shaping. Sign companies used CAB before Polycarbonate was invented.

CAB heats up quickly sags like ABS and acts very much like ABS. A sag of 1 1/2 inches for .060 thick CAB is a bench mark to work off of.

Forming temp is low between 265 degrees and 320 degrees.

Moisture retention is very low, however you can Pre-Dry it at 200 degrees for about an hour to prevent bubbles in your pull.


Here is a bio from Polymerplastics.com

Butyrate:

Butyrate, as it is commonly known, is a cellulose ester modified by using butyric and acetic acids producing Cellulose Acetate Butyrate or CAB. Unlike other common synthetic plastics, the cellulosic plastics are not manufactured by polymerizing a monomer. Instead, they are produced by the chemical modification of cellulose, a natural polymer. Cellulose itself is not a thermoplastic, since it will not melt. Yet , by the viscose process, it is made into film (cellophane) and into fiber (rayon) that compete with the products of its thermoplastic derivatives.

Butyrate, cellulose acetate butyrate, tubing is ideal in any length for storage, packaging and shipping. Tubes are transparent and rigid with excellent dimensional stability and rigid with excellent dimensional stability and high impact strength. They are strong, durable and easy to fabricate. Butyrate tubing can be cut and sawed with standard equipment.

Cellulosics, as a group, are characterized by good strength, toughness, and high surface gloss. In addition, they have good chemical resistance, good clarity, sparkle, and will take decoration readily. Cellulose acetate butyrate is tougher than acetate and has lower moisture absorption. It resists weathering and has excellent transparency. Although it is adversely affected by alcohol, alkalis, paint removers, and acetones, it is resistant to most household chemicals. Additionally, CAB is resistant to the harmful effects of ultra-violet radiation.

It is used for high gloss vacuum formed faces in back lighted signs, especially small point of purchase signs. Designers of display units especially like CAB sheet for its deep-draw properties, ease of formability, and impact resistance.

Because of its clarity, good impact resistance, ease of fabrication, and wide range of sizes, CAB tubing is an excellent choice for clear rigid tubing. CAB tubing is widely used in the packaging industry.

Properties:

Clarity
Ultra-violet resistant
Ease of fabrication
High gloss
Impact resistant

Applications:

Packaging
Signs
Machine guards
Glazing

Availabilities:

Film: .003" to .030"
Sheet: .060" to .250"
Tubing: .060" I.D. to 6.000" O.D.

Here are some links where CAB can be purchased

Calsak Plastics

Emco Plastics

Next up: PET-G (PolyEthleneTerephtalate Glycol ) I'm glad we shorten these names.

[Hand-Schaub]

cool - I've been wanting to learn more about PET-G