TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

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137th Gebirg
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by 137th Gebirg » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:25 am

These are so cool! :salute: I don't suppose you've done a treatment on my Gunstar yet, have you? :grin:


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Tinman
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by Tinman » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:05 pm

137th Gebirg wrote:These are so cool! :salute: I don't suppose you've done a treatment on my Gunstar yet, have you? :grin:
Well.....Actually..... :grin:
You "KNOW" we are going to have a Pulsar Class Gunstar. In fact when I get around to start writing my stories it is already planned to have a Pulsar as one of the TRIDENT's escort group.

As for the drawing, I really like the profile of the Pulsar - exactly what is that hanging below the bow? PLEASE ADVISE. Also what kind of outfit did you project for the Pulsar? Crew, Airwing, etc?
I have played with some tentative drawings but as I am going to have this as one of my main ships I may go ahead and commission CanisD to work his magic on it. She is in the shipyard and on her way - just a matter of time.

Thanks also for the kind comments on my drawings - really appreciate it coming from you. :salute:
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by 137th Gebirg » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:25 am

It's been a long time since I've contemplated this. I first came up with the design for an RPG back in 96, with the main vessel being the Gunstar Agamemnon. It was a part of the Pegasus' 5th Fleet battlegroup (each battlegroup containing 1 battlestar, 2 gunstars and several other support vessels) and a place where wayward pilots went before getting assigned to the Pegasus herself - the ultimate assignment for the top guns of the Colonial Fleet. I envisioned her Viper wing capacity to be exactly half that of a standard Battlestar.

The primary focus of the Gunstar was not so much a fightercraft launch platform, but a massive 4-shooter in space. Like the A-10 Warthog, they had some big guns that they had to build a ship around: 3 plasma cannons (inspired by "Riker's hotrod" triple-engined Enterprise-D in the Trek TNG Episode "All Good Things") and one central mass-driving railgun. Each Gunstar was designed to be able to take out a 3-basestar taskforce on its own in a matter of minutes. In the game I ran, things didn't work out quite that smoothly, but that's not really relevant here. The thing hanging from the bottom was supposed to be a swiveling super-high-resolution targeting scanner array, capable of a level of power that could see through whole planets to the other side in order to anticipate ambushes (not stars, though). The Gunstar also has lateral missile launchers on either side of the main body between the two landing bay connecting pylons - inspired by identically-shaped launchers on the Space Battleship Yamato. Finally, she also sports a high-output energizer (represented by the radiating disc on the top that looks suspiciously like a TMP refit-Enterprise impulse deflection crystal...hmmm...) that was required to power the forward-mounted weapon systems. That part worked, but since the soleum fuel cells weren't expanded to accommodate the higher energy requirements (Gunstars were based initially on a cut-down Battlestar spaceframe and had identical internals, for the most part), the Gunstars had the unfortunate design flaw of "running out of gas" quicker than other capital ships, especially during and after prolonged combat operations. Their alpha strikes against enemy fleets, however, were the stuff of legend.

You can find higher-res scans of my original pencil drawings on my art page here. Hope this helps...
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by Tinman » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:14 am

Thanks much for the description - that clears up a lot of stuff. The larger sized drawings are very helpful as well.
A very interestingly designed ship! Kinda makes her sound like she would be even more of a match than for one of the TIGERS.

I think I want one even more in TRIDENT's Battle Group after having read your description. Since the "Aggie" is with PEGASUS and Cain's 5th Fleet I will have to come up with a good name for mine. Have any others you regularly used?

Again, thanks for the information.

:salute:
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by 137th Gebirg » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:17 am

Actually, yes, I created a complete order-of-battle for all 12 fleets at one time, complete with names of all the Battlestars and Gunstars. I have them buried somewhere in my piles of old gaming notes. I'll have to dig those up.
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by GoldCylon » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:17 am

Great back story Jim, and still after years of work it is still awesome stuff, and to see what TinMan is doing also is a terrific work. Thank you to the both of you.
:byyourcommand: :cylongold:

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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by 137th Gebirg » Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:30 am

Most welcome, and thanks very much for the kind words! :)

From a story-telling point of view, the Gunstar served as a great "super-weapon" platform, but I had to include some "flaws" in the design or it wouldn't have been as interesting to use and way too easy to dominate any battlefield. The "running out of gas" trope is a good example. The targeting array was another major Achilles Heel - since there was no room to put it in a more concealed location (taken up by weapons and power systems), it was kind of hanging out there and became a target of opportunity for Cylon attack squads. Once the Cylons realized they could effectively blind such a formidable adversary, they didn't have to worry as much about the main guns. Colonial Fleet tried to offset that vulnerability by including the smaller flight pods, to have its complement of Vipers serve not as aggressor units, but as point-defense escorts for incoming aggressors. They left the offensive Viper missions to the larger Battlestars. Basically, I tried to make the vulnerabilities make sense within the context of the universe without sounding too contrived. And why would they relegate up-and-coming hot-shot pilots to such a mundane close-to-home defense duty before being reassigned to a Battlestar? They must first learn control in battle before going out away from the protective shell of AA batteries.

In today's military and government contracts, oftentimes we see situations where something was not entirely thought out or corners had to be cut to get something from draft to production. This would have been the case here, particularly since the Colonials were trying to decisively end the "Thousand Yahren War" with the Cylons. Honestly, I can't imagine - we take issue with a war that's lasted over 10 years (Afghanistan) - Vietnam lasted 20 and we were understandably fed up with it and it changed our culture forever. Having a society of people enduring the same war with the same enemy for 1000 or so years? I seriously can't wrap my brain around that, which is why I had the Gunstar have a certain flavor of "crazy desperation" on the part of the Colonials.
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by Tinman » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:03 pm

Have sent you a PM Jim. :wink:
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by 137th Gebirg » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:08 pm

Doesn't look like I got it. :(
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by Tinman » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:11 pm

LOL< I posted that before I sent it. It's should be there now. :wink:
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by Tinman » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:16 pm

Was always curious about another ship design of yours - could you give us a rundown on the SPAWN CLASS FIGHTINGSTAR as well please.

http://www.shipschematics.net/bsg/image ... _spawn.jpg

:salute:
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by 137th Gebirg » Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:44 pm

Actually, that one isn't mine. That was a contribution by someone named Eric "Soundwave" from over a decade ago. Have no idea what the impetus was behind that design, but it was a modification of my original Gunstar. Not quite sure what's going on with the hangar connections there. :huh:
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by GoldCylon » Thu Dec 20, 2012 9:36 pm

Hey Jim in reply to your comment about being able to wrap your head around a 1000 year war. Think about this. If you were born a raised say 100 years after the war started it is now a life style of that world or country. Everyone around when the war started is long gone. Anyone going to war is just performing their duty and till the resources of a computer like robot culture is destroyed the war will never end. Now isn't there wars in the Middle East that lasted de ades or longer? The hate level of one country to an other has been around almost as long as recorder time. 1000 years seems like a possible time frame.
Image :cylongold: :cylongold: :cylongold:

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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by Tinman » Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:27 pm

GoldCylon wrote:Hey Jim in reply to your comment about being able to wrap your head around a 1000 year war. Think about this. If you were born a raised say 100 years after the war started it is now a life style of that world or country. Everyone around when the war started is long gone. Anyone going to war is just performing their duty and till the resources of a computer like robot culture is destroyed the war will never end. Now isn't there wars in the Middle East that lasted de ades or longer? The hate level of one country to an other has been around almost as long as recorder time. 1000 years seems like a possible time frame.
You have to add in another couple of factors to the war in BSG:

1. It's not just a war of power or for territory - it's a last one standing war of survival - both sides are pretty much out to completely exterminate the other.

2. Due to the strengths of each side - the other can't gain enough of an edge to win so it turns into a "Meat Grinder."

3. As such it starts to as was said turn into more of a "Duty" thing - for the species or the life style even. You can see that even a little now in the wars going on over the Middle East. Can imagine it was even worse like back in the 100 Years War between the British & French.
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Re: TINMAN'S SHIPYARD

Post by Tinman » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:39 am

RA CLASS DREADNOUGHT

Image

The classification "Dreadnought" had been retired from use in the unified Colonial Fleet by the time the specifications for what would eventually become the RA CLASS came into being.

As the TIGER CLASS Destroyers came into combat service with their specification that they be able to take out a Cylon Basestar or Gunstar by themselves - after the first battles the engagements were studied and a list of improvements were worked up for the design. One of the biggest was that though the TIGER CLASS was very effective against the Cylon warships as long as they had some kind of fighter support to keep the Cylon fighters from interfering in the fight.

A personal project of the legendary Commander Cain - he worked up the specifications and pushed the project of the "Super-Destroyer" through all the red tape of the bureaus of Colonial Fleet Headquarters. After using all his influence to get the project going - a Battlestar under early construction was ordered converted to the design to get the project completed as soon as possible (much to the VERY vocal protests from many High Officers in the Fleet that felt that construction of Battlestars would better benefit the war effort).

The new design combined the already extensive firepower of the Destroyers weapons with the KEW railgun killing power of the older Battlecruisers on a Battlestar size hull with it's massive engines to make a truly formidable anti-ship platform. As a nod to the new era of Fighter to Fighter combat the ship also incorporated a single, standard sized Battlestar Hangar Bay pod capable of both launching, servicing & landing aircraft under combat conditions.

The term "Super-Destroyer" didn't stick for long as it was so different from the standard Basestar Destroyers in the Colonial Fleet so the term "Dreadnought" was resurrected for the type. The lead ship was name RA in honor of the Sun God as worshiped by some sects of the Colonials. However after the completion of the RA no further ships of this class or type were built due to the overwhelming need for new Battlestars.

The RA had a very impressive career as flagship of the 5th Destroyer Squadron with Commander Cain's 5th Fleet taking part in many of his famous "Hit & Fade" operations - including probably the most famous - the strike on the Cylon Shipyards that destroyed over 50 major warships. However the RA was destroyed with the rest of the Colonial Fleet's Destroyers during the ill-fated Battle of Molecay.

RA CLASS DREADNOUGHT:
LENGTH: 1,385 meters
STANDARD CREW: 2,200 Officers and Crew
PASSENGERS: 500 Marines

ARMAMENT:
2x Super-Heavy Turbo-Laser Cannons (Lower Bow)
4x Heavy, Turbo-Laser Cannons (two in each wing)
4x Twin, Super Heavy, Anti-Ship Class KEW Turrets
4x Twin, Medium, Anti-Ship Class KEW Turrets
12x Heavy, Solonite Missile Tubes (Reloadable) (500 Megaton Thunderbolt anti-ship/anti-surface missiles)
12x Twin, Heavy Dual-Purpose Blaster Batteries
40x Twin, Light Point-Defense Blaster Batteries

AIRWING:
2x Squadrons Viper Mk.I Fighters (24 aircraft each)
2x Squadrons Adder Mk.II Strike Fighters (24 aircraft each)
2x Condor Class Drop-Ships
1x Transport Flight - 6x Alpha Class Shuttles - 6x Micro-Shuttles
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